Vinnie
See Dummies in the index
I understand your point but it could just as easily and correctly be read as such meaning the whole ov the previous sentence counters. It's bad drafting and as such really needs correcting.
D3.7 Vehicular malfunction of MA
- Thread starter Commissar Piotr
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It took nearly 40 years to spot a possible misreading of a rule that nobody played wrong.
The urgency of an erratum is relative.
The urgency of an erratum is relative.
apbills
Elder Member
If it meant the whole of the previous sentences, why does it then contradict its own rule. Neither of these two sentences makes any sense at all if you read "such" to mean anything other than those vehicles with no printed B#.
"A printed B# < 12 applies only to the MA unless Vehicle Notes specify otherwise. Breakdown Numbers are not printed on a vehicle unless the armament is prone to malfunction and has a B# < 12 or a X#; otherwise a B# of 12 is inherently assumed."
If "such" means those without a printed B# whose B# of 12 is inherently assumed, there is no (meaning zero, nada) issue with the rule as written and it is clear what is intended. Given the choice of one or the other interpretation, I find it very hard not to interpret it in the way that means there are no contradictions or confusion with the entire body of the rules.
Commissar Piotr
War Pig
Here we go again, and make no mistake, I do NOT want to know what the result should be, on that we all agree.
The ONLY thing I am after here is what the rules tells us, literally.
If we start with this "such", I agree it probably means weapons with no B# printed on the vehicular counter. Then it is perfectly clear what happens when such a weapon rolls a "12".
Now, we have the question about what happens with a vehicular weapon with a B11 printed on it.
D3.7 in that case do not apply as it only, due to "such", applies to vehicles without a printed B#.
A9.7 do not apply since that rule is about SWs and no reference is made to that rule in D3.7.
C2.28 would apply to such a Gun, but as we know there also exists vehicular weapons that are not Guns, for example MGs/FTs.
The conclusion must therefore be that the rules do not tell us at all what happens to a MG MA with a B11, it could be anything, including nothing.
Just to complicate matters, what if Ammunition Shortage is in play or Intensive Fire?
What bugs me so much about this is that out of ASLs 99 problems, this is the hundredth and that makes no sense.
No matter how many problems ASL has, very few if you ask me in comparison to the complexity of the game. The more we can get fixed the better for newer players. We have a real problem if we start to rate how important fixes to known issues are.
There is a easy fix to this problem that will not affect anything else, exchange the "12" for "B#" in D3.7 so it is in line with A9.7.
Oh, once again. Do NOT tell me it should malfunction, I know that should be the outcome, it is just not supported by the rules as written.
The ONLY thing I am after here is what the rules tells us, literally.
If we start with this "such", I agree it probably means weapons with no B# printed on the vehicular counter. Then it is perfectly clear what happens when such a weapon rolls a "12".
Now, we have the question about what happens with a vehicular weapon with a B11 printed on it.
D3.7 in that case do not apply as it only, due to "such", applies to vehicles without a printed B#.
A9.7 do not apply since that rule is about SWs and no reference is made to that rule in D3.7.
C2.28 would apply to such a Gun, but as we know there also exists vehicular weapons that are not Guns, for example MGs/FTs.
The conclusion must therefore be that the rules do not tell us at all what happens to a MG MA with a B11, it could be anything, including nothing.
Just to complicate matters, what if Ammunition Shortage is in play or Intensive Fire?
What bugs me so much about this is that out of ASLs 99 problems, this is the hundredth and that makes no sense.
No matter how many problems ASL has, very few if you ask me in comparison to the complexity of the game. The more we can get fixed the better for newer players. We have a real problem if we start to rate how important fixes to known issues are.
There is a easy fix to this problem that will not affect anything else, exchange the "12" for "B#" in D3.7 so it is in line with A9.7.
Oh, once again. Do NOT tell me it should malfunction, I know that should be the outcome, it is just not supported by the rules as written.
zgrose
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The EX for D3.71 clearly shows what happens when your B# is something other than 12.
You're embarrassing yourself over a nothing.
You're embarrassing yourself over a nothing.
Larry
Elder Member
"Such ordnance malfunctions on an Original To Hit DR of 12 and MG/FT/IFE malfunctions on an Original IFT/CC DR of 12"
modifies the last independent clause of the preceding sentence:
"otherwise a B# of 12 is inherently assumed."
If the "such" sentence modified all malfunction, the adjective "such" is unnecessary. The rule of construction would require that the adjective phrase "such ordnance" applies to the immediately preceding independent clause. The understood subject of the independent clause "otherwise a B# of 12 is inherently assumed" is the vehicle that has no printed B#.
To read the "such ordnance" phrase as applying to all vehicular ordnance would also render superfluous, "A printed B# < 12 applies only to the MA unless Vehicle Notes specify otherwise." Reading a word, phrase, clause, or sentence that make other words, phrases, clauses, or sentence superfluous is a tool of absolute last resort.
See, rules lawyering is useful.
modifies the last independent clause of the preceding sentence:
"otherwise a B# of 12 is inherently assumed."
If the "such" sentence modified all malfunction, the adjective "such" is unnecessary. The rule of construction would require that the adjective phrase "such ordnance" applies to the immediately preceding independent clause. The understood subject of the independent clause "otherwise a B# of 12 is inherently assumed" is the vehicle that has no printed B#.
To read the "such ordnance" phrase as applying to all vehicular ordnance would also render superfluous, "A printed B# < 12 applies only to the MA unless Vehicle Notes specify otherwise." Reading a word, phrase, clause, or sentence that make other words, phrases, clauses, or sentence superfluous is a tool of absolute last resort.
See, rules lawyering is useful.
Treadhead
Senior Member
This seems like a language comprehension problem to me. Errata not required.
And no, I don't agree that there are other "99" problems with ASL.. lol ... ASL is well into edge cases at this point.
And no, I don't agree that there are other "99" problems with ASL.. lol ... ASL is well into edge cases at this point.
That's exactly what this is, an English language reading problem.